Discussion:
how to be a rightwinger in america
(too old to reply)
timmy
2004-08-10 14:52:18 UTC
Permalink
you must call yourself christian and yet believe that guaranteed
health insurance should be available only to certain people in
society.
timmy
p.s. no real christian would deny health care to another american.
Fred Farkle
2004-08-10 15:50:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by timmy
you must call yourself christian and yet believe that guaranteed
health insurance should be available only to certain people in
society.
timmy
p.s. no real christian would deny health care to another american.
Thy shall not covet your neighbor's insurance.
metonymy
2004-08-10 16:26:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred Farkle
Post by timmy
you must call yourself christian and yet believe that guaranteed
health insurance should be available only to certain people in
society.
timmy
p.s. no real christian would deny health care to another american.
Thy shall not covet your neighbor's insurance.
Nor Gore thy neighbors ox.
metonymy
2004-08-10 16:56:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by metonymy
Post by Fred Farkle
Thy shall not covet your neighbor's insurance.
Nor Gore thy neighbors ox.
Nor steal his cable signal...........
cajun-gwailo
2004-08-10 18:32:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred Farkle
Post by timmy
you must call yourself christian and yet believe that guaranteed
health insurance should be available only to certain people in
society.
timmy
p.s. no real christian would deny health care to another american.
Thy shall not covet your neighbor's insurance.
thou shalt not be a practicing hmo
Mikey
2004-08-10 14:59:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by timmy
you must call yourself christian
I'm an athiest and callous pragmatist, but I respect a person's
right to practice a religion as long as it's not harming anyone
else.
Post by timmy
and yet believe that guaranteed health insurance should be
available only to certain people in society.
Sure, are you going to pay for it? If you want health insurance,
then go get a job that offers it or serve in the armed forces[0].
Just expecting the government to provide health care not only
puts the US citizens under the mercy of the gov't (and expanding
the power of gov't over people), but it also promotes laziness.

While you're at it, would you like the gov't to wipe your arse
for you too? :)
Post by timmy
p.s. no real christian would deny health care to another american.
Judging from the tone of your post, I'm assuming you're against
Christians. Yet you expect them, via Christian dogma, to never
deny health care to another American. That's exactly the selfish
"bite the hand that feeds you" sentiment that has caused me to
resent much of the leftwing.

No doubt, health care needs to be made more affordable. But the
*last* thing gov't does is make things more affordable. Cellular
phones sure as fuck didn't become more affordable because of the
FCC; it was due to demand, investment, and competition.

[0] Hey, I did both. :P
--
(\(\ Since-beer-leekz,
(^.^) Mikey
(")") The only way out is down-EBTG
Posted by news://news.nb.nu
cajun-gwailo
2004-08-10 18:40:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mikey
Post by timmy
you must call yourself christian
I'm an athiest and callous pragmatist, but I respect a person's
right to practice a religion as long as it's not harming anyone
else.
Post by timmy
and yet believe that guaranteed health insurance should be
available only to certain people in society.
Sure, are you going to pay for it? If you want health insurance,
then go get a job that offers it or serve in the armed forces[0].
Just expecting the government to provide health care not only
puts the US citizens under the mercy of the gov't (and expanding
the power of gov't over people), but it also promotes laziness.
While you're at it, would you like the gov't to wipe your arse
for you too? :)
yes, please.
Mikey
2004-08-10 20:21:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by cajun-gwailo
Post by Mikey
While you're at it, would you like the gov't to wipe your arse
for you too? :)
yes, please.
Careful what you wish for...

Cajun-Gwailo gets his arse wiped by the Federal Government

(Doorbell rings)

Gwailo: Hello.

Gov't arse wiper: Hello, I'm Bawb from The Federal arse-wiping
service. I understand that you had a shit on July 28, 2004 that
requires us to wipe.

Gwailo: WTF!?! That was 2 weeks ago.

Bawb: Yes, I know, but we had to get the paperwork sorted out. It
takes a bit to get some signatures for approval, y'know. If it's
not checked out like such, people will start abusing our service.

Gwailo: Well, okay. I've got to take a shit now. Could you wait
a minute and I'll be ready for a wipe?

Bawb: Sorry, Sir, I don't have approval to wipe for that shit. I
only have approval to wipe after the shit you had on July 28, 2004.

Gwailo: (slips a ten spot into Bawb's hand) I don't know, do you
think you could make an exception? It's be a shame to make you
take 2 trips.

Bawb: (slips tenner in his pocket) Okay, but keep it all hush-hush.
Just sign here, here, and here. Please step in the truck.

Gwailo: What's that machine?

Bawb: It's our arse-wiper. Designed by our finest Federal civil
engineers. I know it looks a bit intimidating, but I assure you
that it does a very_thorough_job. Let me fire it up.

Gwailo: I dunno about this.

Bawb: Safe as houses and works great. We'll just need to put these
Federally mandated safety straps on you.

Gwailo: Huh? Is that sandpaper?

Bawb: Yeah, we used different types of paper, but according to their
calculations, the civil engineers decided that 10 grit sandpaper
would do the best job. (turns on machine) Hold still, please. This
will just take a moment.

Gwailo: AHHHHHHHHHHRRRGGG!!!!!

The End.

:)
--
(\(\ Since-beer-leekz,
(^.^) Mikey
(")") The only way out is down-EBTG
Posted by news://news.nb.nu
cajun-gwailo
2004-08-11 00:38:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mikey
Post by cajun-gwailo
Post by Mikey
While you're at it, would you like the gov't to wipe your arse
for you too? :)
yes, please.
Careful what you wish for...
hey, one way or another, no matter who is in office, we're all gonna get it
up the *ss.
metonymy
2004-08-11 02:37:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by cajun-gwailo
hey, one way or another, no matter who is in office, we're all gonna get it
up the *ss.
This is so true.


Later.........
timmy
2004-08-11 00:32:16 UTC
Permalink
Mikey <***@eboMUNG.net> wrote :
If you want health insurance,
then go get a job that offers it or serve in the armed forces.
------------
take a step back and recognize this for what it is --- callous
rightwing bile...it implies that if you're among the 44 million
uninsured in america, you simply "go get a job that offers it" or sign
up for a stint in the military...yeah, those are two rational
solutions to the biggest domestic problem in america!
timmy
------------
Mikey
2004-08-11 13:58:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mikey
If you want health insurance,
then go get a job that offers it or serve in the armed forces.
take a step back and recognize this for what it is --- callous
rightwing bile...
You say rightwing bile, I say self-reliance by not depending on
the gov't and doing things yourself. Unless, of course, you
enjoy relying on gov't for all your needs. After all, those in
D.C. know how to best serve your needs, right?
Post by Mikey
it implies that if you're among the 44 million
uninsured in america, you simply "go get a job that offers it" or sign
up for a stint in the military...yeah, those are two rational
solutions to the biggest domestic problem in america!
Okay, what about the rest of Americans who have health insurance?
Did they win their insurance through a lottery or did they work
for it?
--
(\(\ Since-beer-leekz,
(^.^) Mikey
(")") The only way out is down-EBTG
Posted by news://news.nb.nu
cajun-gwailo
2004-08-11 19:26:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mikey
Post by Mikey
If you want health insurance,
then go get a job that offers it or serve in the armed forces.
Okay, what about the rest of Americans who have health insurance?
Did they win their insurance through a lottery or did they work
for it?
I'd be interested in seeing the statistics. What percentage of americans
have full coverage health insurance that they pay 100% of the premiums for?
Curtis
2004-08-11 19:30:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by cajun-gwailo
Post by Mikey
Post by Mikey
If you want health insurance,
then go get a job that offers it or serve in the armed forces.
Okay, what about the rest of Americans who have health insurance?
Did they win their insurance through a lottery or did they work
for it?
I'd be interested in seeing the statistics. What percentage of americans
have full coverage health insurance that they pay 100% of the premiums for?
As far as I know, almost all insured Americans pay for 100% of their
premiums. For many of them the premiums are part of their employee
benefits along with their paychecks.
cajun-gwailo
2004-08-11 23:49:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Curtis
Post by cajun-gwailo
Post by Mikey
Post by Mikey
If you want health insurance,
then go get a job that offers it or serve in the armed forces.
Okay, what about the rest of Americans who have health insurance?
Did they win their insurance through a lottery or did they work
for it?
I'd be interested in seeing the statistics. What percentage of americans
have full coverage health insurance that they pay 100% of the premiums for?
As far as I know, almost all insured Americans pay for 100% of their
premiums. For many of them the premiums are part of their employee
benefits along with their paychecks.
"benefit" is another word for "employer pays". the employee is not
entitled to it, it is not part of the compensation, and the employee is most
definitely not "paying for it"
Willielmus de Noers
2004-08-12 12:06:40 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 18:49:34 -0500, "cajun-gwailo"
Post by cajun-gwailo
"benefit" is another word for "employer pays". the employee is not
entitled to it, it is not part of the compensation, and the employee is most
definitely not "paying for it"
Of course it's part of the employee's compensation. What the hell are
you talking about?

--
W. de N.

Death twitches my ear, "Live," he says; "I am coming."

-- Virgil (70-19 BC)
Posted by news://news.nb.nu
cajun-gwailo
2004-08-12 18:05:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willielmus de Noers
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 18:49:34 -0500, "cajun-gwailo"
Post by cajun-gwailo
"benefit" is another word for "employer pays". the employee is not
entitled to it, it is not part of the compensation, and the employee is most
definitely not "paying for it"
Of course it's part of the employee's compensation. What the hell are
you talking about?
spoken like a man who has never had p/l responsibliity nor had to answer to
shareholders.
cajun-gwailo
2004-08-12 18:11:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willielmus de Noers
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 18:49:34 -0500, "cajun-gwailo"
Of course it's part of the employee's compensation. What the hell are
you talking about?
and part of the 'benefit' employers get in return is guys who sit and post
to newsgroups on the company dime.
buggerbuggerbugger
2004-08-13 01:34:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by cajun-gwailo
Post by Curtis
As far as I know, almost all insured Americans pay for 100% of their
premiums. For many of them the premiums are part of their employee
benefits along with their paychecks.
"benefit" is another word for "employer pays". the employee is not
entitled to it, it is not part of the compensation, and the employee is most
definitely not "paying for it"
close...

benefit is another word for 'we're going to pay you less'.
Willielmus de Noers
2004-08-13 15:43:30 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 01:34:03 GMT, buggerbuggerbugger
Post by buggerbuggerbugger
benefit is another word for 'we're going to pay you less'.
My employer can buy health insurance for me a lot cheaper than I can
buy it for myself. If they paid me more but didn't provide insurance,
I'd be worse off. I pay for my dental insurance, but I get it through
my employer at group rates. I'd rather make less and not pay for my
own health insurance. It's a win-win.

--
W. de N.

Death twitches my ear, "Live," he says; "I am coming."

-- Virgil (70-19 BC)
Posted by news://news.nb.nu
Willielmus de Noers
2004-08-12 02:48:27 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:26:38 -0500, "cajun-gwailo"
Post by cajun-gwailo
I'd be interested in seeing the statistics. What percentage of americans
have full coverage health insurance that they pay 100% of the premiums for?
I have two different plans and don't pay a dime for either one of
them.

--
W. de N.

Death twitches my ear, "Live," he says; "I am coming."

-- Virgil (70-19 BC)
Posted by news://news.nb.nu
cajun-gwailo
2004-08-11 19:28:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mikey
Post by Mikey
If you want health insurance,
then go get a job that offers it or serve in the armed forces.
take a step back and recognize this for what it is --- callous
rightwing bile...
You say rightwing bile, I say self-reliance by not depending on
the gov't and doing things yourself.
If you're relying on an employer subsidized health plan, you're not "doing
things yourself." What's the difference in the two schools of thought on
entitlements? Employer furnished or subsidized? Or government?
Wordy
2004-08-11 19:40:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by cajun-gwailo
If you're relying on an employer subsidized health plan, you're not "doing
things yourself." What's the difference in the two schools of thought on
entitlements? Employer furnished or subsidized? Or government?
One is earned.
--
Jane
Islam is a peaceful religion - just as long as the women are beaten, the
boys are buggered and the infidels are killed.
cajun-gwailo
2004-08-11 23:53:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wordy
Post by cajun-gwailo
If you're relying on an employer subsidized health plan, you're not "doing
things yourself." What's the difference in the two schools of thought on
entitlements? Employer furnished or subsidized? Or government?
One is earned.
well, not really. because the non-performing employee in this situation
receives the same coverage as the overachiever.

few people realize how much it costs an employer. and employers are able to
get 'reduced rates' because they are buying in volume - even more so if they
are part of a 'collective' - group - union - or a PEO.

to replace that kind of coverage, "on your own" - a single person or small
family signing up for blue cross, for example, is almost prohibitively
expensive.
Curtis
2004-08-12 11:19:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by cajun-gwailo
Post by Wordy
Post by cajun-gwailo
If you're relying on an employer subsidized health plan, you're not
"doing
Post by Wordy
Post by cajun-gwailo
things yourself." What's the difference in the two schools of thought
on
Post by Wordy
Post by cajun-gwailo
entitlements? Employer furnished or subsidized? Or government?
One is earned.
well, not really. because the non-performing employee in this situation
receives the same coverage as the overachiever.
So, the first dollar in everyone's paycheck isn't earned either I guess.
--
Curtis
cajun-gwailo
2004-08-12 17:21:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Curtis
=
So, the first dollar in everyone's paycheck isn't earned either I guess.
no idea where you are going with that. you aren't taxed on 1) your
employer's contribution to your health care, 2) your employer's contribution
to your retirement/401k, etc. 3) your employer's granting of stock options.

these are "perks," they are not earned. as I have said, they are a gift
from the employer, delivered at their whim.

employers have no responsibility to deliver them, employees have no right to
expect them, other than the culture of "entitlements" that we live in. the
rates keep rising and rising for employers. something has to go, somewhere.
Curtis
2004-08-12 17:42:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by cajun-gwailo
Post by Curtis
=
So, the first dollar in everyone's paycheck isn't earned either I guess.
no idea where you are going with that.
It's simple. You said great employees and not-so-great employess all
get insurance so that meant it wasn't earned. My point was that they
all got at least $1 on their paychecks but that didn't mean the $1
wasn't earned. It's a flaw in your logic.
Post by cajun-gwailo
you aren't taxed on 1) your employer's contribution to your health
care, 2) your employer's contribution to your retirement/401k, etc.
3) your employer's granting of stock options.
The hell I'm not. I also have to pay a 10% penalty if withdrawn early
but taxation has nothing to do with it. Government can choose to tax
employer provided parking if it wants to.
Post by cajun-gwailo
these are "perks," they are not earned. as I have said, they are a gift
from the employer, delivered at their whim.
My working for them is a "whim" too. Isn't the marketplace great?
Post by cajun-gwailo
employers have no responsibility to deliver them, employees have no right to
expect them, other than the culture of "entitlements" that we live in. the
rates keep rising and rising for employers. something has to go, somewher
So only compensation the government forces employers to provide is
earnings? Good grief.
--
Curtis
cajun-gwailo
2004-08-13 01:33:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Curtis
So only compensation the government forces employers to provide is
earnings? Good grief.
--
never mind. glad you like your entitlements.
Wordy
2004-08-12 18:00:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by cajun-gwailo
no idea where you are going with that. you aren't taxed on 1) your
employer's contribution to your health care, 2) your employer's contribution
to your retirement/401k, etc. 3) your employer's granting of stock options.
these are "perks," they are not earned. as I have said, they are a gift
from the employer, delivered at their whim.
employers have no responsibility to deliver them, employees have no right to
expect them, other than the culture of "entitlements" that we live in. the
rates keep rising and rising for employers. something has to go, somewhere.
Many employers offer no insurance at all. You get what you pay for.
The prospective employee is shopping for the right job AND benefit
package, therefore it IS compensation. The employee accepts the terms
of the employer when he takes the job. Ultimately the choice lies with
the employee.

Kinda like, you join the army you go to war.
--
Jane
Islam is a peaceful religion - just as long as the women are beaten, the
boys are buggered and the infidels are killed.
timmy
2004-08-13 02:26:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wordy
The prospective employee is shopping for the right job AND benefit
package, therefore it IS compensation. The employee accepts the terms
of the employer when he takes the job. Ultimately the choice lies with
the employee.
-----------------
it's so very easy for this kind of talk to come from the mouth of one
with guaranteed health insurance for life...yes, that's wordy jane,
folks...step away for a minute, wordy, and realize that there are 44
million people in this country without health insurance...the answer
to that crisis is not to simply go out and find a job with the right
benefit package.
timmy
-----------------
Wordy
2004-08-12 18:20:40 UTC
Permalink
For the record, there is free healthcare in New Orleans
through the Charity Hospital system. I've used it a few
times myself. It was way better care than I expected for
free. The doctors come from the same pool used at the VA--students
from LSU and Tulane medical schools.

Free dental care is available through the LSU Dental School
system.

There's a waiting room delay no matter what you pay.
--
Jane
Islam is a peaceful religion - just as long as the women are beaten, the
boys are buggered and the infidels are killed.
timmy
2004-08-13 02:29:26 UTC
Permalink
Wordy <***@bellsouth.net> wrote
For the record, there is free healthcare in New Orleans
Post by Wordy
through the Charity Hospital system. I've used it a few
times myself.
-----------
for the record, are you suggesting that an uninsured american who
needs a heart transplant can simply go to charity hospital in new
orleans and get it?
timmy
-----------
buggerbuggerbugger
2004-08-13 02:41:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wordy
For the record, there is free healthcare in New Orleans
Post by Wordy
through the Charity Hospital system. I've used it a few
times myself.
-----------
for the record, are you suggesting that an uninsured american who
needs a heart transplant can simply go to charity hospital in new
orleans and get it?
timmy
-----------
no but we gots yer brain transplant right here waiting for you, fuckwad.
James S. Prine
2004-08-13 02:52:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by buggerbuggerbugger
no but we gots yer brain transplant right here waiting for you, fuckwad.
Now now now, cruelty to hamsters is a serious criminal offense....

<g>


James S. Prine
http://hometown.aol.com/jsprine/
Uncas
2004-08-13 13:52:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by buggerbuggerbugger
no but we gots yer brain transplant right here waiting for you, fuckwad.
Sometimes you get it right. Sometimes.
buggerbuggerbugger
2004-08-13 14:17:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Uncas
Post by buggerbuggerbugger
no but we gots yer brain transplant right here waiting for you, fuckwad.
Sometimes you get it right. Sometimes.
HE LOVES ME!! tra lal alallaa
Uncas
2004-08-13 15:55:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by buggerbuggerbugger
Post by Uncas
Post by buggerbuggerbugger
no but we gots yer brain transplant right here waiting for you, fuckwad.
Sometimes you get it right. Sometimes.
HE LOVES ME!! tra lal alallaa
I... I aways have. Ever since ...Paris...

Curtis
2004-08-13 14:20:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by buggerbuggerbugger
Post by Wordy
For the record, there is free healthcare in New Orleans
Post by Wordy
through the Charity Hospital system. I've used it a few
times myself.
-----------
for the record, are you suggesting that an uninsured american who
needs a heart transplant can simply go to charity hospital in new
orleans and get it?
timmy
-----------
no but we gots yer brain transplant right here waiting for you, fuckwad.
Abbie Normal
metonymy
2004-08-13 02:53:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by timmy
for the record, are you suggesting that an uninsured american who
needs a heart transplant can simply go to charity hospital in new
orleans and get it?
timmy
No, of course not. But, spare kidneys are reasonable
on the street in NO. You just have to know the
right guy.
Wordy
2004-08-13 14:44:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wordy
For the record, there is free healthcare in New Orleans
Post by Wordy
through the Charity Hospital system. I've used it a few
times myself.
-----------
for the record, are you suggesting that an uninsured american who
needs a heart transplant can simply go to charity hospital in new
orleans and get it?
timmy
-----------
You don't exactly walk in and order a transplant,
but yes.
--
Jane SansMystere
Willielmus de Noers
2004-08-13 15:55:02 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 12:21:58 -0500, "cajun-gwailo"
Post by cajun-gwailo
these are "perks," they are not earned. as I have said, they are a gift
from the employer, delivered at their whim.
So let me get this straight. Suppose I was a big-shot exec. My
company pays me $1.00 a week in salary. But they give me a house to
live in, a staff of servants, an expense account for all household
expenses, a company car with a company-paid chauffeur, a company-paid
gasoline credit card to keep it full of gas, a company-paid American
Express Platinum card for personal incidental expenses, a company-paid
401K, etc., etc, . . .

How much am I being paid?

--
W. de N.

Death twitches my ear, "Live," he says; "I am coming."

-- Virgil (70-19 BC)
Posted by news://news.nb.nu
Willielmus de Noers
2004-08-12 12:08:57 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 18:53:26 -0500, "cajun-gwailo"
Post by cajun-gwailo
Post by Wordy
One is earned.
well, not really. because the non-performing employee in this situation
receives the same coverage as the overachiever.
In most organizations (other than the government, of course), the
non-performing employee will soon be out of a job, and the
overachiever will be promoted to a job with even better benefits.

--
W. de N.

Death twitches my ear, "Live," he says; "I am coming."

-- Virgil (70-19 BC)
Posted by news://news.nb.nu
timmy
2004-08-13 02:22:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willielmus de Noers
In most organizations (other than the government, of course), the
non-performing employee will soon be out of a job, and the
overachiever will be promoted to a job with even better benefits.
-------------
gawd!...what fantasy world do you live in?
timmy
-------------
Mikey
2004-08-11 19:00:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by cajun-gwailo
Post by Mikey
Post by Mikey
If you want health insurance,
then go get a job that offers it or serve in the armed forces.
take a step back and recognize this for what it is --- callous
rightwing bile...
You say rightwing bile, I say self-reliance by not depending on
the gov't and doing things yourself.
If you're relying on an employer subsidized health plan, you're not "doing
things yourself." What's the difference in the two schools of thought on
entitlements? Employer furnished or subsidized? Or government?
What Wordy said and choice. I can take another job with better benefits if
I don't like what a current employer is offering. With gov't, I'm stuck
with whatever The Powers That Be decide.
--
(\(\ Since-beer-leekz,
(^.^) Mikey
(")") The only way out is down-EBTG
Posted by news://news.nb.nu
cajun-gwailo
2004-08-12 00:21:39 UTC
Permalink
"> What Wordy said and choice. I can take another job with better
benefits if
I don't like what a current employer is offering. With gov't, I'm stuck
with whatever The Powers That Be decide.
but you're in the minority (to have the luxury of changing). lotsa
employers don't offer health care. lots of them are going to have to drop
it.

and it's still not "earned." and i am sure there are a bucketload of folks
here who would carp about how crappy their coverage/HMO/whatever is.
Mikey
2004-08-12 02:04:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mikey
"> What Wordy said and choice. I can take another job with better
benefits if
I don't like what a current employer is offering. With gov't, I'm stuck
with whatever The Powers That Be decide.
but you're in the minority (to have the luxury of changing). lotsa
employers don't offer health care. lots of them are going to have to drop
it.
Rubbish. Most skilled labour employers do offer benefits. If someone's
goals rise only to the point of flipping burgers at McDonalds and not
rising to a manager position, then whose fault is it? If one is happy
with that, then they have to accept their lot. Otherwise, they have to
put forth some effort and improve themselves and their station in life.
Post by Mikey
and it's still not "earned." and i am sure there are a bucketload of folks
here who would carp about how crappy their coverage/HMO/whatever is.
And whose fault is that? If you don't like what you are offered, then
do your best to find something better and tell your boss that you're
moving on unless they can beat it. As a former IT employer[0], I
understand that giving your employees the best will bring you the
best talent. Sometimes, people just have to stop blaming the job
market and see about making themselves valuable enough to be worth
having employers bid for them like sports stars.

[0] Whilst the company did really well, but the accounting, paperwork,
and signing things just really got to be too much. I know my
station in life and it's not working 16 hour days with half of
it being dedicated to beancounter work. :)
--
(\(\ Since-beer-leekz,
(^.^) Mikey
(")") The only way out is down-EBTG
Posted by news://news.nb.nu
FAXXES
2004-08-12 04:54:16 UTC
Permalink
I can take another job with better
Post by Mikey
benefits if
Post by Mikey
I don't like what a current employer is offering. With gov't, I'm stuck
with whatever The Powers That Be decide.
Would all private insurance disappear if some form of national healthcare were
put in place, or would wealthier Americans still maintain private insurance?
Naturally private insurance would then become much more expensive. But those
who do want it can always take a better job...or a second job. :-)

Faxxes
FAXXES
2004-08-12 05:19:47 UTC
Permalink
If someone's
Post by Mikey
goals rise only to the point of flipping burgers at McDonalds and not
rising to a manager position, then whose fault is it? If one is happy
with that, then they have to accept their lot. Otherwise, they have to
put forth some effort and improve themselves and their station in life.
**********
Well, I certainly agree that one should put forth effort if s/he is to reap the
rewards and improve their life. But let's consider that person who begins at a
low level job such as McD's ...flipping burgers....young guy with a great work
ethic, hoping for a bright future. Should he be expected to be at risk with no
insurance just because he's starting out? What about those who just don't have
the 'ability' to do more than flip burgers or some very low level job? No
insurance for them? Should only the bright, ambitious and successful qualify
for insurance?

I don't argue with your point about working hard and seeking more. But let's
face it, there are many Americans who are simply not qualified for IT positions
or anything close. One way or another, 'we' are paying for the medical
treatment of the millions of Americans who don't have insurance.

Would it be cheaper to continue to pay the ever increasing insurance premiums
to cover those costs....or put a national healthcare plan in place? I have no
idea what the numbers are, btw. But I do think that will be the question that
needs to be answered soon. Employers faced with big premium increases will
*claim* that they are forced to ask for more 'employee participation' for
healthcare premiums....until it hurts. I suppose they could decide to just eat
the big increases and settle for lower profits...yeah, right, sure. <g>

Faxxes
timmy
2004-08-13 03:17:39 UTC
Permalink
***@aol.com (FAXXES) wrote: let's consider that person who begins
at a
Post by FAXXES
low level job such as McD's ...flipping burgers....young guy with a great work
ethic, hoping for a bright future. Should he be expected to be at risk with no
insurance just because he's starting out? What about those who just don't have
the 'ability' to do more than flip burgers or some very low level job? No
insurance for them? Should only the bright, ambitious and successful qualify
for insurance?
--------------
take time to read twice what faxxes wrote here, folks...it shows the
compassion all americans should feel for fellow citizens...and it goes
to the reality i posed at the start of this thread: a true christian
would not deny health care to any other american but a rightwing
neo-con would because a rightwing neo-con has no interest in other
americans...it's fend for yourself, get a better job with better
benefits, join the military --- all mean-spirited, elitist replies
that we've seen callously repeated here.
timmy
--------------
metonymy
2004-08-13 03:52:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by timmy
to the reality i posed at the start of this thread: a true christian
would not deny health care to any other american
I thought we had settled this 'true Christian' stuff.
timmy
2004-08-13 15:10:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by metonymy
I thought we had settled this 'true Christian' stuff.
------------
really?...in what way?...i haven't seen anyone here explain how you
can be a christian and a rightwinger at the same time...the two are
oil and water because a christian would not deny health care to any
american but a rightwinger would.
timmy
------------
Wordy
2004-08-13 14:49:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by timmy
take time to read twice what faxxes wrote here, folks...it shows the
compassion all americans should feel for fellow citizens...and it goes
to the reality i posed at the start of this thread: a true christian
would not deny health care to any other american but a rightwing
neo-con would because a rightwing neo-con has no interest in other
americans...it's fend for yourself, get a better job with better
benefits, join the military --- all mean-spirited, elitist replies
that we've seen callously repeated here.
God forbid you should EARN anything.
--
Jane SansMystere
Willielmus de Noers
2004-08-12 02:50:18 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:28:29 -0500, "cajun-gwailo"
Post by cajun-gwailo
If you're relying on an employer subsidized health plan, you're not "doing
things yourself." What's the difference in the two schools of thought on
entitlements? Employer furnished or subsidized? Or government?
It's a fringe benefit of my job. Just like the matching funds in my
401K, my three weeks annual vacation, ten paid holidays. sick leave,
and every other Friday off. What's your point?

--
W. de N.

Death twitches my ear, "Live," he says; "I am coming."

-- Virgil (70-19 BC)
Posted by news://news.nb.nu
cajun-gwailo
2004-08-12 12:18:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willielmus de Noers
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:28:29 -0500, "cajun-gwailo"
Post by cajun-gwailo
If you're relying on an employer subsidized health plan, you're not "doing
things yourself." What's the difference in the two schools of thought on
entitlements? Employer furnished or subsidized? Or government?
It's a fringe benefit of my job. Just like the matching funds in my
401K, my three weeks annual vacation, ten paid holidays. sick leave,
and every other Friday off. What's your point?
my point is it is not "earned" as someone else opined. it's a gift from
your employer. it's a kind of "work-welfare"
Curtis
2004-08-12 12:37:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by cajun-gwailo
Post by Willielmus de Noers
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:28:29 -0500, "cajun-gwailo"
Post by cajun-gwailo
If you're relying on an employer subsidized health plan, you're not
"doing
Post by Willielmus de Noers
Post by cajun-gwailo
things yourself." What's the difference in the two schools of thought
on
Post by Willielmus de Noers
Post by cajun-gwailo
entitlements? Employer furnished or subsidized? Or government?
It's a fringe benefit of my job. Just like the matching funds in my
401K, my three weeks annual vacation, ten paid holidays. sick leave,
and every other Friday off. What's your point?
my point is it is not "earned" as someone else opined. it's a gift from
your employer. it's a kind of "work-welfare"
It's a gift in the same sense that wages are a gift.
Willielmus de Noers
2004-08-12 13:09:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Curtis
Post by cajun-gwailo
Post by Willielmus de Noers
It's a fringe benefit of my job. Just like the matching funds in my
401K, my three weeks annual vacation, ten paid holidays. sick leave,
and every other Friday off. What's your point?
my point is it is not "earned" as someone else opined. it's a gift from
your employer. it's a kind of "work-welfare"
It's a gift in the same sense that wages are a gift.
Exactly. I must admit I'm baffled by his perspective on this.

--
W. de N.

Death twitches my ear, "Live," he says; "I am coming."

-- Virgil (70-19 BC)
Posted by news://news.nb.nu
Uncas
2004-08-12 13:17:04 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 08:09:16 -0500, Willielmus de Noers
Post by Willielmus de Noers
Post by Curtis
Post by cajun-gwailo
Post by Willielmus de Noers
It's a fringe benefit of my job. Just like the matching funds in my
401K, my three weeks annual vacation, ten paid holidays. sick leave,
and every other Friday off. What's your point?
my point is it is not "earned" as someone else opined. it's a gift from
your employer. it's a kind of "work-welfare"
It's a gift in the same sense that wages are a gift.
Exactly. I must admit I'm baffled by his perspective on this.
Even he doesn't believe it. He's pulling your chain.
Willielmus de Noers
2004-08-12 13:06:55 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 07:18:11 -0500, "cajun-gwailo"
Post by cajun-gwailo
Post by Willielmus de Noers
It's a fringe benefit of my job. Just like the matching funds in my
401K, my three weeks annual vacation, ten paid holidays. sick leave,
and every other Friday off. What's your point?
my point is it is not "earned" as someone else opined. it's a gift from
your employer. it's a kind of "work-welfare"
That's nonsense. It's part of the compensation for the work I do.

--
W. de N.

Death twitches my ear, "Live," he says; "I am coming."

-- Virgil (70-19 BC)
Posted by news://news.nb.nu
cajun-gwailo
2004-08-12 19:12:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willielmus de Noers
On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 07:18:11 -0500, "cajun-gwailo"
That's nonsense. It's part of the compensation for the work I do.
--
then pay taxes on it.
Curtis
2004-08-12 19:17:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by cajun-gwailo
Post by Willielmus de Noers
On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 07:18:11 -0500, "cajun-gwailo"
That's nonsense. It's part of the compensation for the work I do.
--
then pay taxes on it.
Why? Health insurance premiums are fully deductible.
--
Curtis
metonymy
2004-08-12 19:44:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Curtis
Why? Health insurance premiums are fully deductible.
You can't deduct the insurance premiums your employer pays.
timmy
2004-08-13 02:43:01 UTC
Permalink
Curtis wrote:
Health insurance premiums are fully deductible.
-----------
even if you pay your own health insurance premiums, they are not
deductible at all unless you itemize and, by doing so, overcome the
standard deduction...not easy to do.
timmy
-----------
Curtis
2004-08-13 03:19:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Curtis
Health insurance premiums are fully deductible.
-----------
even if you pay your own health insurance premiums, they are not
deductible at all unless you itemize and, by doing so, overcome the
standard deduction...not easy to do.
timmy
-----------
You have no concept of what health insurance costs.
cajun-gwailo
2004-08-13 12:52:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Curtis
You have no concept of what health insurance costs.
and you apparently have no concept of basic accounting, GAAP, or the tax
code. it all makes sense now, you work for the IRS! LOL
Curtis
2004-08-13 03:08:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by metonymy
Post by Curtis
Why? Health insurance premiums are fully deductible.
You can't deduct the insurance premiums your employer pays.
Right. The discussion was whether employees should pay taxes on the
premiums paid by employers. Thus the "why?" since premiums are
deductible anyway. Moot city.
--
Curtis
cajun-gwailo
2004-08-13 12:42:30 UTC
Permalink
. Moot city.
Post by Curtis
--
Curtis
I've often wondered why so many people use the word "moot" in a manner that
suggests that it has exactly the opposite meaning of its actual definition.
Curtis
2004-08-13 12:54:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Curtis
. Moot city.
Post by Curtis
--
Curtis
I've often wondered why so many people use the word "moot" in a manner that
suggests that it has exactly the opposite meaning of its actual definition.
"Usage Note: The adjective moot is originally a legal term going back
to the mid-16th century. It derives from the noun moot, in its sense of
a hypothetical case argued as an exercise by law students.
Consequently, a moot question is one that is arguable or open to
debate. But in the mid-19th century people also began to look at the
hypothetical side of moot as its essential meaning, and they started to
use the word to mean ³of no significance or relevance.² Thus, a moot
point, however debatable, is one that has no practical value. A number
of critics have objected to this use, but 59 percent of the Usage Panel
accepts it in the sentence The nominee himself chastised the White
House for failing to do more to support him, but his concerns became
moot when a number of Republicans announced that they, too, would
oppose the nomination. When using moot one should be sure that the
context makes clear which sense is meant."

dictionary.com
metonymy
2004-08-12 19:36:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by cajun-gwailo
Post by Willielmus de Noers
That's nonsense. It's part of the compensation for the work I do.
--
then pay taxes on it.
I doubt this will change anyone's mind, but from an accounting
perspective, Gwailo is right.


Healthcare premiums etc are classed accounting-wise separate from
salaries & wages and always (at least in my experience) displayed as
separate and distinct line items on the income statement. They represent
an expense distinct from s & w.


They are also logically distinct from s & w, because while I am under a
legal obligation to pay my employees, I am under no such obligation to
provide "benefits".


Yeah, there's FICA, SUTA and FUTA and I suppose a clever soul could make
the argument that these are benefits, but I don't think that's what
we're talking about here.
timmy
2004-08-13 02:35:27 UTC
Permalink
Willielmus de Noers <***@gmx.ch> rightwinged:
It's part of the compensation for the work I do.
-----------------
okay, whatever you call it the reality is you're in a privileged class
--- people covered by cadillac employer health plans...it's mean
spirited and elitist to believe, as the rightwinger do, that something
as basic as health care should be available only to those in
privileged classes...can i get an amen?
timmy
-----------------
timmy
2004-08-13 02:39:57 UTC
Permalink
"cajun-gwailo" <***@nospamhotmail.com> wrote:
it is not "earned" as someone else opined. it's a gift from
Post by cajun-gwailo
your employer.
----------
i read this twice --- because it's true...your employer can simply
diminish your health care coverage or take it away altogether,
although both are a bit tougher to do if coverage is in place due to
collective bargaining...the erosion of such plans is well under way in
america as we speak --- and collective bargaining is on the way out
too, in case you haven't noticed.
timmy
----------
Wordy
2004-08-13 14:46:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by timmy
----------
i read this twice --- because it's true...your employer can simply
diminish your health care coverage or take it away altogether,
Not if it was negotiated into your employment contract.
And, you can quit at any time and go elsewhere.
--
Jane SansMystere
timmy
2004-08-11 00:37:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mikey
Sure, are you going to pay for it?
-----------
as a matter of fact, yes, i am going to pay for it, along with a
rollback of bush's tax cuts for the rich...if kerry is elected and
somehow gets congress to go along with his idea to allow all adults to
buy into the federal employees health benefits (FEHB) plan, i will pay
for a FEHB policy...didn't expect to hear that, did you?!
timmy
-----------
Mikey
2004-08-11 14:07:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by timmy
Post by Mikey
Sure, are you going to pay for it?
as a matter of fact, yes, i am going to pay for it, along with a
rollback of bush's tax cuts for the rich...if kerry is elected and
somehow gets congress to go along with his idea to allow all adults to
buy into the federal employees health benefits (FEHB) plan, i will pay
for a FEHB policy...didn't expect to hear that, did you?!
Fine, you first. And as long as I'm not forced to pay for it[0].
I'll stick with my chosen insurance plan, and you can have yours
dictated to you. When both of us slam our thumb in the car door,
let's see who gets home first (and with thumb properly mended).

[0] While we're at it; Dammit, I want my money back! Let's get
the voucher system in so we can stop subsidizing sub-standard
schools.
--
(\(\ Since-beer-leekz,
(^.^) Mikey
(")") The only way out is down-EBTG
Posted by news://news.nb.nu
timmy
2004-08-11 00:49:11 UTC
Permalink
Mikey <***@eboMUNG.net> wrote: > Judging from the tone of your
post, I'm assuming you're against
Post by Mikey
Christians.
---------------
wrong!...i'm not against christians...all i said is it's hypocritical
to say you are a christian and a rightwinger at the same time because
there are two conficting belief systems there: on one hand, a true
christian would not deny health care to another american; on the
other, a true rightwinger would deny it, opting instead for a position
that basically says, "hey, fend for yourself, get a better job, join
the military, etc"...bottom line: you can't be a true christian and be
a true rightwinger...the really laughable irony is that just about
everybody in the rightwing conservative camp in america professes to
be a christian!
timmy
-----------------
Mikey
2004-08-11 14:10:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mikey
post, I'm assuming you're against
Post by Mikey
Christians.
bottom line: you can't be a true christian and be
a true rightwinger.
Hey, you were the one who said you have to be a Christian to be a
rightwinger, not me.
:P
--
(\(\ Since-beer-leekz,
(^.^) Mikey
(")") The only way out is down-EBTG
Posted by news://news.nb.nu
metonymy
2004-08-11 15:53:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by timmy
bottom line: you can't be a true christian and be
a true rightwinger.
Real rightwingers worship Wotan.
Mikey
2004-08-11 19:02:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by metonymy
Post by timmy
bottom line: you can't be a true christian and be
a true rightwinger.
Real rightwingers worship Wotan.
ITYM Wotan worships rightwingers. ;)
--
(\(\ Since-beer-leekz,
(^.^) Mikey
(")") The only way out is down-EBTG
Posted by news://news.nb.nu
timmy
2004-08-11 00:51:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mikey
Just expecting the government to provide health care not only
puts the US citizens under the mercy of the gov't (and expanding
the power of gov't over people), but it also promotes laziness.
-------------
behold he who is brainwashed.
timmy
-------------
timmy
2004-08-11 00:58:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mikey
No doubt, health care needs to be made more affordable. But the
*last* thing gov't does is make things more affordable. Cellular
phones sure as fuck didn't become more affordable because of the
FCC; it was due to demand, investment, and competition.
----------------
really?...would you be surprised to know that the government-managed
national health care program called medicare has a lower operating
overhead than any other health care program in america?...btw, the
attempt to compare cellphone pricing with health care insurance is
bogus...whether any american can afford to buy a cellphone or a car or
a house or any other material thing is not a matter of life and death;
whether americans have access to guaranteed health insurance IS a
matter of life and death.
timmy
-----------------
cajun-gwailo
2004-08-11 11:45:26 UTC
Permalink
whether any american can afford to buy a cellphone is not a matter of life
and death;

you obviously don't have teenagers
timmy
2004-08-11 23:00:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by cajun-gwailo
you obviously don't have teenagers
---------------
lol!...no, i don't.
timmy
---------------
timmy
2004-08-11 01:12:07 UTC
Permalink
Mikey <***@eboMUNG.net> wrote :
Yet you expect them, via Christian dogma, to never
Post by Mikey
deny health care to another American. That's exactly the selfish
"bite the hand that feeds you" sentiment that has caused me to
resent much of the leftwing.
---------------
you know, it's hard sometimes to understand a serious social problem
when you're not affected by it...if mikey lost his job (and,
presumably, his cadillac, employer health-care plan), he would find
himself and his family without health insurance...let's say his child
then needs a heart transplant...oops, no health insurance to pay for
it...oops, can't qualify for medicare soon enough to get the
transplant in time to save the child's life...and, oops, the hospital
will not perform the $300,000 procedure on a "cash patient"
(translation = no insurance) unless a one-third deposit of $100,000 is
put down...oops, mikey can't raise that kind of money, so the child
has to go home without the transplant...question: do you think in that
scenario that mikey would say it is selfish for his family to believe
it should be guaranteed health insurance so the child can live?...i'm
not being melodramatic here, folks, this kind of scenario can happen
to mikey or anyone in america.
timmy
p.s. people DO lose their jobs in the united states, in case you
haven't noticed.
--------------
Mikey
2004-08-11 14:26:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mikey
Yet you expect them, via Christian dogma, to never
Post by Mikey
deny health care to another American. That's exactly the selfish
"bite the hand that feeds you" sentiment that has caused me to
resent much of the leftwing.
you know, it's hard sometimes to understand a serious social problem
when you're not affected by it...if mikey lost his job (and,
presumably, his cadillac,
[snip tail of woe]

First off, I don't drive a caddie, I drive a fully paid for, ugly (but
gets the job done) Jeep: my anti-bling-bling mobile.

Okay, assuming that were the case (me & my missus lost our jobs, etc.),
we have many more avenues beside the gov't to take care of a $300,000
transplant.

Family: This is what "family values" are about; a family taking care of
each other in times of need. In many cases, families are extended by
friends.

Professional or Fraternal organizations: Part of many organizational
dues go towards the welfare of its members in a time of need. If the
need is dire, they'll throw a fund drive.

Religious organizations: 'nuff said.

Charities and community organizations: United Way, the Red Cross, etc.

And all of these are done without gov't foobar and tax dollars. But
they do require accountability.
--
(\(\ Since-beer-leekz,
(^.^) Mikey
(")") The only way out is down-EBTG
Posted by news://news.nb.nu
James S. Prine
2004-08-12 00:31:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mikey
First off, I don't drive a caddie, I drive a fully paid for, ugly (but
gets the job done) Jeep: my anti-bling-bling mobile.
My gas-guzzler happens to be a 21-speed Mongoose, which is ugly (but not to me)
and fully paid for...not hard to do, since I paid only $27.25 for it at the
local pawnshop.


James S. Prine
http://hometown.aol.com/jsprine/
Willielmus de Noers
2004-08-12 02:57:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by James S. Prine
Post by Mikey
First off, I don't drive a caddie, I drive a fully paid for, ugly (but
gets the job done) Jeep: my anti-bling-bling mobile.
My gas-guzzler happens to be a 21-speed Mongoose, which is ugly (but not to me)
and fully paid for...not hard to do, since I paid only $27.25 for it at the
local pawnshop.
That was me with the Cadillac. '89 Brouigham, 180,000 miles. Ice
cold air, runs smooth and quiet. Love it. Hope it lasts forever.

--
W. de N.

Death twitches my ear, "Live," he says; "I am coming."

-- Virgil (70-19 BC)
Posted by news://news.nb.nu
Mikey
2004-08-12 02:12:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by James S. Prine
Post by Mikey
First off, I don't drive a caddie, I drive a fully paid for, ugly (but
gets the job done) Jeep: my anti-bling-bling mobile.
My gas-guzzler happens to be a 21-speed Mongoose, which is ugly (but not to me)
and fully paid for...not hard to do, since I paid only $27.25 for it at the
local pawnshop.
Oh, c'mon, Jim. I just /know/ there's a tricked out Aston Martin under your
command somewhere.

Don't worry, that secret is safe with me. Wait a minute. This is my newsreader
and not my email! Oh shit... sorry. :)
--
(\(\ Since-beer-leekz,
(^.^) Mikey
(")") The only way out is down-EBTG
Posted by news://news.nb.nu
James S. Prine
2004-08-12 03:26:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mikey
Oh, c'mon, Jim. I just /know/ there's a tricked out Aston Martin under your
command somewhere.
I actually *did* own a 1965 Aston-Martin DB5 for a short time, while I was
stationed in England. Wonderful car. Alas, it suffered from a bad
transmission; I replaced the Aston-Martin with a 1967 4.2 litre E-type Jaguar
and was very happy with it. The Aston-Martin was actually the first automobile
I ever owned.

How the times change...from an Aston-Martin to a bicycle <g>.




James S. Prine
http://hometown.aol.com/jsprine/
FAXXES
2004-08-11 03:51:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mikey
No doubt, health care needs to be made more affordable.
Totally agree.
Post by Mikey
Cellular
phones sure as fuck didn't become more affordable because of the
FCC; it was due to demand, investment, and competition.
There is certainly "demand" for affordable health care. Every employer who
offers that *benefit* must decide which of the competing providers to select.
However, iinstead of the *product* becoming more affordable, the reverse has
happened. If only the *customers* of a healthcare policy would not USE the
product! <g>

Faxxes
Mikey
2004-08-11 15:02:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by FAXXES
Post by Mikey
Cellular
phones sure as fuck didn't become more affordable because of the
FCC; it was due to demand, investment, and competition.
There is certainly "demand" for affordable health care. Every employer who
offers that *benefit* must decide which of the competing providers to select.
Amen. And employers who do provide health care for their employees end up
being more successfull since the people who take care of their company are
taken care of as well; employees tend to work better when their health is in
order.
Post by FAXXES
However, iinstead of the *product* becoming more affordable, the reverse has
happened. If only the *customers* of a healthcare policy would not USE the
product! <g>
Let's not forget that landsharks have a hand in health care being so expensive.
You can barely take someone's temperature without multi-million dollar liability
insurance. Ugh! Maybe we can convince the President to bomb some law schools
since they're obviously terrorist camps that train people who undermind and
destroy the US.
:)
--
(\(\ Since-beer-leekz,
(^.^) Mikey
(")") The only way out is down-EBTG
Posted by news://news.nb.nu
FAXXES
2004-08-12 05:32:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mikey
Post by Mikey
Cellular
phones sure as fuck didn't become more affordable because of the
FCC; it was due to demand, investment, and competition.
Two products...a cell phone and an insurance *policy*...let's say, each costing
$50/month. However, one will cost you a lot more in future monthly charges
if you USE it.
Post by Mikey
Let's not forget that landsharks have a hand in health care being so expensive.
You can barely take someone's temperature without multi-million dollar liability
insurance. Ugh! Maybe we can convince the President to bomb some law schools
since they're obviously terrorist camps that train people who undermind and
destroy the US.
:)
Well, you sure do make a good point! It's gotten totally ridiculous! Not sure
the prez would consider such a thing until at least after November. :-)
Question....if a national healthcare plan were put in place, wouldn't that
impact what you describe though...in terms of lawsuits?

Faxxes
Mikey
2004-08-13 14:28:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by FAXXES
Post by Mikey
Let's not forget that landsharks have a hand in health care being so expensive.
You can barely take someone's temperature without multi-million dollar liability
insurance. Ugh! Maybe we can convince the President to bomb some law schools
since they're obviously terrorist camps that train people who undermind and
destroy the US.
:)
Well, you sure do make a good point! It's gotten totally ridiculous! Not sure
the prez would consider such a thing until at least after November. :-)
Question....if a national healthcare plan were put in place, wouldn't that
impact what you describe though...in terms of lawsuits?
The US would go bankrupt from all of the landsharks suing the national health
care. If paying lawyers privatly weren't bad enough, just wait until they
get their pay when it's proxied through our taxes.
--
(\(\ Since-beer-leekz,
(^.^) Mikey
(")") The only way out is down-EBTG
Posted by news://news.nb.nu
Wordy
2004-08-11 17:03:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mikey
Post by timmy
and yet believe that guaranteed health insurance should be
available only to certain people in society.
Sure, are you going to pay for it? If you want health insurance,
then go get a job that offers it or serve in the armed forces[0].
Best move I made as a young person, with the greatest positive
lifetime benefit. Even the worst of my military times pale in
comparison to the health benefits I now enjoy.
--
Jane
Islam is a peaceful religion - just as long as the women are beaten, the
boys are buggered and the infidels are killed.
timmy
2004-08-11 23:04:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wordy
Best move I made as a young person, with the greatest positive
lifetime benefit. Even the worst of my military times pale in
comparison to the health benefits I now enjoy.
-------
wordy is fortunate to be among the privileged who have guaranteed
health insurance...however, there are more than 44 million people in
this country who have no insurance, and the number is growing --- thus
the biggest social problem in america.
timmy
--------
Mikey
2004-08-12 02:29:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by timmy
wordy is fortunate to be among the privileged who have guaranteed
health insurance...however, there are more than 44 million people in
this country who have no insurance, and the number is growing --- thus
the biggest social problem in america.
<black_adder>
Well fuck me. I though the biggest social problems in America were
spelling, knowing how to properly use a fish knife at the table, not
switching hands when carving and eating a steak, wearing white shoes
after labour day, and how to signal a turn when driving in a car.
</black_adder>
:)
--
(\(\ Since-beer-leekz,
(^.^) Mikey
(")") The only way out is down-EBTG
Posted by news://news.nb.nu
James S. Prine
2004-08-12 00:32:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wordy
Even the worst of my military times pale in
comparison to the health benefits I now enjoy.
I wish I could say that...and mean it.


James S. Prine
http://hometown.aol.com/jsprine/
Zemedelec
2004-08-11 15:24:40 UTC
Permalink
<< p.s. no real christian would deny health care to another american.
<BR><BR>
Would he sell used cars? WWJD?
zemedelec
metonymy
2004-08-11 15:54:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zemedelec
Would he sell used cars? WWJD?
WWWD


What would Wotan do?
timmy
2004-08-11 23:07:02 UTC
Permalink
***@aol.comspamfree (Zemedelec) wrote:
Would he sell used cars? WWJD?
---------
doesn't matter...cars are material things...they are not life and
death...health insurance is.
timmy
---------
Willielmus de Noers
2004-08-12 02:37:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zemedelec
<< p.s. no real christian would deny health care to another american.
I'm still wondering who these people are who are being "denied" health
care. That was against the law last I heard.

--
W. de N.

Death twitches my ear, "Live," he says; "I am coming."

-- Virgil (70-19 BC)
Posted by news://news.nb.nu
timmy
2004-08-13 03:08:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willielmus de Noers
I'm still wondering who these people are who are being "denied" health
care. That was against the law last I heard.
---------
open your eyes and look around you, willie!...there are 44 million
people in america who have no health insurance for whatever reason, be
it unemployment (think downsizing, outsourcing, etc., etc.) or
unavailability through their small-business employer or ineligibility
due to pre-existing conditions...they are denied health care because
they don't have insurance...happens every day...doesn't happen to you
because you've already told us you have employer health insurance...it
is ludicrous to argue that people without health insurance can simply
get medical care, regardless of its cost...there is no law, for
instance, that requires a hospital to perform a lifesaving heart
transplant.
timmy
-------------
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